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Thread: Protest the Pope

  1. #11
    Junior Member scoped's Avatar
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    TheArctopus, I totally agree; Richard Dawkins, seems to be making atheism look more like a religion. I saw one of the little snippets they do on channel 4 of him about evolution, and he was saying it's basically indisputable fact and any other view is wrong -(i believe in evolution) but my view is anything in science can be disputed, and it's healthy to do that, so you get more and more research and ideas. But telling people 'no, im right, you're wrong' just sounds like the people he seems to dislike with religion.

    as for the pope, well, i'm not his biggest fan by a long shot, and i disagree with a lot of his ideas.
    However, my understanding is that he was actually invited here by the queen (whether an unelected person should have the power to invite leaders here, or have any power atall is a different issue)
    so it's not like he's waved his pope stick and said "i'm coming to england, pay pay pay" although i would love to see a video of that happening. So I think it's a little unfair for people to be completely outraged at him, for coming when he's invited (after all, there are other things he does you can be outraged at :P ). Also, to my knowledge, it should cost approximately 12-15m , and so far the catholic church has put 7m towards it, which as far as i know is set to rise as more collections are made.

    I know it sounds like im supporting the pope, but i'm just trying to make the point, that i think it's harsh to invite someone-anyone, to your country and get angry when they accept, even if they're paying more than half the bill (which is set to rise).

    There are a lot of other reasons to have disagreements with the pope, and to have disagreements with the way he was invited.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member DreadfulFaeryFalls's Avatar
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    This is the sort of thing that gives people like Maark (i.e. the sort of people that dont know what they are talking about, have no interest in learning about or understanding that which they are ranting about, yet always entering into debates on the topic wherever possible) an outlet for ignorant and intolerant outbursts on religious debate.
    Hmm would you like some extra fuel for your flamming - just because you seriously disagree with Maarks views does not mean that he is wrong and you are right.

    You dislike Dawkins in the same way that many people dislike the Pope - both are figure heads of extreme views
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreadfulFaeryFalls View Post
    Hmm would you like some extra fuel for your flamming - just because you seriously disagree with Maarks views does not mean that he is wrong and you are right.

    You dislike Dawkins in the same way that many people dislike the Pope - both are figure heads of extreme views
    Actually my opinion of religion is pretty well aligned with that of Maarks at the core (and I don't dislike Maark at all) but I'm not opposed to learning about it, and considering both sides of the argument before I comment. He has openly stated that he has no interest in religion, does not want to understanding it or learn about it, yet insists on commenting in any debate relating to the topic that he comes across. So in response to your above comment that I think I am right and he is wrong, I don't think either me or Maark (who at the core of our opinions agree) are right or wrong and in any case in a debate on religion the assertion of right and wrong is futile in the best if times. I just think collecting masses of people and allowing a good percentage of them to voice off in ignorance, like protests like this often end up doing, provides no good in offering any alternative view

    The reason I dislike Dawkins is not because he is an atheist, its because he is, at the core, a biggot. A very well educated, very intelligent, biggot, who has managed to pretty much transform atheism into a pseudo-religion. Atheism is an extreme view? I thought it was the belief that there is no God. Not a means to attack other peoples beliefs. He makes some good points but then ruins it by painting it with biggotry and quite often an aggressive and malicious attitude towards spreading the opinions he holds. He is obviously well researched, but he puts his opinions over very badly IMO.
    Last edited by TheArctopus; 08-28-2010 at 06:40 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member DreadfulFaeryFalls's Avatar
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    Atheism is an extreme view? I thought it was the belief that there is no God.
    I meant in the way that he presents it - im sure there are "degrees" of atheisim, in the same way that they're are degrees of religious belief, from go-to-church-on-sunday-cos-its-tradition to the burn-everything-we-dislike kind.

    I (not sure like is the right word) Dawkins mainly because he does kick into religion with all the force that religion itself brings to bear against people it doesnt like - a little taste of their own medicine shouldnt hurt
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Maark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheArctopus View Post
    Maark (i.e. the sort of people that dont know what they are talking about, have no interest in learning about or understanding that which they are ranting about, yet always entering into debates on the topic wherever possible).
    How utterly ignorant and idiotic.

    If religious figures want to come here, then fine. I've no problem with that. But fixing it up so that my taxes have to pay for someone to spread what's effectively a disease is something I disagree all too strongly with.
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  6. #16
    Junior Member scoped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maark View Post
    How utterly ignorant and idiotic.

    If religious figures want to come here, then fine. I've no problem with that. But fixing it up so that my taxes have to pay for someone to spread what's effectively a disease is something I disagree all too strongly with.
    but he was invited here, like i said above.

    surely the problem is that he was invited in the first place?
    no matter my feelings on the pope, vatican et al. he just accepted an invitation
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Maark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoped View Post
    but he was invited here, like i said above.

    surely the problem is that he was invited in the first place?
    no matter my feelings on the pope, vatican et al. he just accepted an invitation
    Apologies, didn't see that bit.

    I'd not mind him being invited over - yeah, I'm not happy about someone coming and doing things like that which I disagree with - it's that the taxpayer will be footing the bill.

    I must admit though, if it was John Paul II I might feel differently, he had a friendly Popeface, no matter my feelings on his faith.
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  8. #18

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    As usual I'm a fence sitter, heh!

    I just think of Richard Dawkins and every time I see him now, I can't stop remembering how some journo in The Times once compared him to one of those crazy bag ladies, who stands in the middle of the street and pointlessly yells at cars going by as if it's going to actually do something useful: 'If God doesn't exist, Richard honey, why are you still yelling at him?'.
    So now I see him and can't stop giggling 'ehehehe...bag lady...!'. Although I actually don't think that's completely fair - he's a silly fellow but he has good points, he HAS kicked up enough of a fuss to shake things up which sparked much-needed debate, and he's still reasonably well-argued, for a mainstream philosopher/ethicist.

    I'd technically LIKE to be open-minded and say the Pope can do what he likes, out of love for my one or two catholic friends and in the spirit of being a rampant liberal, but....nnnnghhh....so...difficult...! Where to begin on the topic of 'Things Wrong With The Catholic Church'? We'd be here all night! And add to that the further complication of 'Making Me Pay To Support Things Which Are Wrong With The Catholic Church', and it just gets increasingly difficult to extend the desired polite tolerance from my own pagan views. I may well be joining that protest. As has been said, don't want to get mixed up with those unfortunate stodgy Orangemen, but may end up disliking what the Pope stands for badly enough to outweigh this.

  9. #19
    Senior Member DreadfulFaeryFalls's Avatar
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    As has been said, don't want to get mixed up with those unfortunate stodgy Orangemen,
    I think that the Orange lodge is offically sitting this one out - i was reading the hearald on sunday and it was reporting that there arnt going to be any Protest the Pope marches in case in gets mixed up with sectarian marches but then the Orange Lodge said that it wasnt going to be bothering with it.
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  10. #20
    Super Moderator Chumley's Avatar
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    That popemobile is ridiculous, it looks like a fish tank. They should just stick him on display at the London Aquarium instead and save the petrol.
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